NPL IPL MS

 Moonfall


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 21 January 2016
Posts:1
Posted 12 September 2017 - 2:50 pm
Only problem I have with the NPL ladder is that I can't enter it even just to spectate/coach my brother.
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 _THEM0Nk_


Group: Gold Membership
Join Date: 26 February 2008
Posts:72
Posted 12 September 2017 - 4:58 pm
To OP,
No matter how much you beat around the bush, unfortunately, given the stats and everything you are not a new player anymore, neither you would be considered anymore. Voobly cannot allow you to improve your skills playing in NPL because, to be frank, the skill level is very different. A normal BF Imperial click time is around 30 to 35 minutes in NPL, but in MS you are expected to do it by 27 to 29 min. 25 to 26 is even ****ing awesome. My game improved a lot and thanks to MS. Even though I did not like the rant and rage initially but that's just part and parcel of the game. So yeah, you would never improve if you keep playing with new players.

You are advocating to promote IPL which is a good thing, but the traction is not there. At a given point in time, there are over 1000 people in MS and about 15-20 in IPL. For a quickie, no one would go to IPL. I would just suggest that start hosting your own rooms, get a membership (if possible) to find who is smurfing albeit has an aka and kick them.It has benefit.

Peace! :)
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 I_Am_HunTerr


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 16 May 2017
Posts:46
Posted 12 September 2017 - 5:14 pm
_THEM0Nk_ wrote:
To OP,
No matter how much you beat around the bush, unfortunately, given the stats and everything you are not a new player anymore, neither you would be considered anymore. Voobly cannot allow you to improve your skills playing in NPL because, to be frank, the skill level is very different. A normal BF Imperial click time is around 30 to 35 minutes in NPL, but in MS you are expected to do it by 27 to 29 min. 25 to 26 is even ****ing awesome. My game improved a lot and thanks to MS. Even though I did not like the rant and rage initially but that's just part and parcel of the game. So yeah, you would never improve if you keep playing with new players.

You are advocating to promote IPL which is a good thing, but the traction is not there. At a given point in time, there are over 1000 people in MS and about 15-20 in IPL. For a quickie, no one would go to IPL. I would just suggest that start hosting your own rooms, get a membership (if possible) to find who is smurfing albeit has an aka and kick them.It has benefit.

Peace! :)

i am not a new player and i dont want to play in NPL i just dont want NPL to come direct to MS . thats my point .. tried to tell you last time too .. its not about me .. its a general problem .. i dont care how fast someone click imps .. People often click 24 mins with turk and still lose from people who are in castle .. its all about how you manage skills

1000 People in ms is a true figure .. but actual playing figure is 300 to 450 max as far as i have seen .. other they just pass time .. IPL can prove to be a spot where npl and low skilled can play and exist together .. many players who leave after NPL and dont come to MS will stay for longer
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 [dv8]NXTLVL


Group: Silver Membership
Join Date: 21 August 2012
Posts:1121
Edited 12 September 2017 - 8:30 pm by [dv8]NXTLVL
+chris@voobly wrote:
NPL is a lobby to get familiar with Voobly and the ELO system, and whether you like it or not, 95% of all matches played in the NPL are RM games, which was the reason, why we continued developing it for RM players.
Just out of curiosity, where do you take that percentage from? I just joined the NPL lobby and counted the game rooms that can be indentified with RM and those with CS. 82 rooms where RM/DM, 16 were CBA/Hero/SvW, every other gameroom was either not rated under the RM-Beginners ladder or had nothing in the titel suggesting its a RM game room. And yes, I even included the game rooms where only 1 players sits inside being afk.

So thats more like 80% RM matches. Not to mention that RM matches usually take longer than CS matches since many are played on normal speed whereas CS matches are on fast speed, so technically if we are talking about matches and not game rooms that percentage should be probably more like 75%/25%.

But that just aside.

+chris@voobly wrote:
You cannot even play a single rated CS game in the NPL, even maps like CBA won't rate in NPL. You can play these maps unrated in CS lobby if you want.
This has nothing to do with matches being rated or not. Fact is that only in the NPL lobby players are playing CBA Hero TTM. Where can I play that when Im good at RM and therefore being banned in NPL but at the same time enjoy CBA Hero TTM? In CS nobody hosts that and I would be banned in NPL. So just because I would be good at RM I had no chance of ever playing CBA Hero TTM. Thats pretty stupid.
+chris@voobly wrote:
CS Lobby.
Yes, for SvW there is at least one room in CS every now and then but most players seem to play it in NPL.
+chris@voobly wrote:
What you are saying is wrong. We consider players with more than 200 games being active players on a MS ladder, but you won't get blocked from NPL for playing a few games in MS. Seriously.
So why did Su get banned from the NPL then? I remember him making a topic and complaining about it even though he doesnt play RM at all (just a few matches).
+chris@voobly wrote:
As for Sheep VS Wolf or Jurrasic Park, those maps should be played in the CS lobby where they belong.
Why do they belong to CS? They are randomly generated maps and RM means Random Map, right? They also feature more RM like elements than CS. Europe on the other hand features RM gameplay but is technically a 100% Custom Scenario and it is or was played in the RM lobby. An argument for why SvW and Jurassic belong to CS would highly be appreciated. Right now this seems pretty arbitrary.
+chris@voobly wrote:
Then what do you suggest? Those 20 people playing in IPL seem to be happy with the lobby, everyone else is playing in MS.
And they wouldnt be happy playing in NPL or MS? Youre approaching this from the wrong side. Splitting up communities is always a step into the wrong direction.
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 +chris@voobly


Group: Server Administrator
Join Date: 3 October 2007
Posts:6741
Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:25 am
Just out of curiosity, where do you take that percentage from? I just joined the NPL lobby and counted the game rooms that can be indentified with RM and those with CS. 82 rooms where RM/DM, 16 were CBA/Hero/SvW, every other gameroom was either not rated under the RM-Beginners ladder or had nothing in the titel suggesting its a RM game room. And yes, I even included the game rooms where only 1 players sits inside being afk.

So thats more like 80% RM matches. Not to mention that RM matches usually take longer than CS matches since many are played on normal speed whereas CS matches are on fast speed, so technically if we are talking about matches and not game rooms that percentage should be probably more like 75%/25%.

But that just aside.
Total games played + finished per month.
This has nothing to do with matches being rated or not. Fact is that only in the NPL lobby players are playing CBA Hero TTM. Where can I play that when Im good at RM and therefore being banned in NPL but at the same time enjoy CBA Hero TTM? In CS nobody hosts that and I would be banned in NPL. So just because I would be good at RM I had no chance of ever playing CBA Hero TTM. Thats pretty stupid. Yes, for SvW there is at least one room in CS every now and then but most players seem to play it in NPL.

So why did Su get banned from the NPL then? I remember him making a topic and complaining about it even though he doesnt play RM at all (just a few matches).

Why do they belong to CS? They are randomly generated maps and RM means Random Map, right? They also feature more RM like elements than CS. Europe on the other hand features RM gameplay but is technically a 100% Custom Scenario and it is or was played in the RM lobby. An argument for why SvW and Jurassic belong to CS would highly be appreciated. Right now this seems pretty arbitrary.

And they wouldnt be happy playing in NPL or MS? Youre approaching this from the wrong side. Splitting up communities is always a step into the wrong direction.
We removed rated CS match making in NPL for CBA (in 2013 or 2014, I don't remember) when (1) more and more CS players from the CS lobby started playing CBA / CBA Hero in NPL and (2) our complaints kept increasing every week (similar to CS, with dozens of CBA matches to be reset). We also had to ban lots of CS players at that time, as they were either noob bashing on the CS ladder or behaving like children and harassing people for "being noobs" or "feeding" or "lagging". After CBA was finally unrated in NPL, most of the CS players returned to CS; some of them however have stayed in NPL and even though they didn't like TTM, they started playing CBA Hero TTM with the new players in NPL, CBA completely died though, while CBA Hero was the only CS map at that time. Before 2014 when CBA was still rated, we had 60% CBA and 40% RM in NPL, after 2014 when it was finally unrated 20% CS and 80% RM. This was also the time where Gallas was promoting his CS maps, new maps like "Roll the Dice" or "Sheep VS Wolf" or even maps like Jurrasic Park have become popular and CBA Hero has become even less popular. This is where the problems on RM side have started, after more than 2 years, most of the banned RM-Beginners players who didn't want to play in MS but also have been unable to evade the ladder bans, were doing the following: they were hosting on the RM-Beginners ladder and once their room was full, they quickly switched to the Inter Ladder and launched. Most of our new players of course didn't notice that, the result was noob bashing to a new level and tons of complaints. We then removed the Inter Ladder in NPL and added it to MS, which didn't solve the problem. The trick was the same, but instead of the Inter Ladder, the CS Ladder was used and some players even had the awesome idea, to play maps like Arabia or BF on the CS ladder - including those, who loved to add unfair advantages using the scenario editor and playing custom RM maps. We then updated our client to assure, that only authorized maps would rate in NPL, but also did not solve our problem. After more than 6 months and hundreds of complaints later (2015 now), more than half of the total RM games played in NPL were unrated, and again people kept switching the ladder settings from RM-Beginner to Unrated before they launched - and now we had another problem. RM population in NPL was above 1300 during peak hours, and all 300 game rooms were taken, while the MS lobby had only 700 players. Now we had two communities complaining, players of MS, because there we no games and new players of NPL, because the noob bashing problem has become bigger and bigger, as the ladder bans didn't work due to people playing unrated. Lobby bans were finally introduced, everyone who was banned from the RM-Beginners ladder, also was forced to play in the MS lobby. While the numbers in NPL dropped to 1000 players, MS and NPL finally became even again during peak hours, both at 1000 players. Those banned from NPL were now complaining, that they were too few, to find other players with the same skill levels and that they are tired losing every single game against 16xx and 17xx players. We started updating our client again and 3 months later, we finally had automatic lobby and ladder bans, and an automatic detection of known violations was introduced. We no longer needed staff taking care of this (late 2015, early 2016). After some tweaks we noticed, that our ladder / lobby restrictions have finally become effective and we started transferring more and more players to MS to finally solve the problem, that people could not find other players with the same skill level. We even added the RM-Beginners ladder to MS; so no one would show up as a player with zéro games. We first catched up those playing for years on Voobly, with 16xx and 17xx rating on the old RM ladders (2009 - 2012). Then we catched up those with multiple 13xx accounts in NPL and last but not least, those who even were resigning games, they have won, to keep their rating in NPL low, which has become an automatic detection later. The problem on RM side was finally fixed in NPL, and we even added an IPL lobby with the same protection level for those, who didn't want to play in MS, the numbers in IPL kept dropping though, from > 100 during peak to ~20 today. We kept tweaking our algorithm and started sending players with more than 2k games and a rating above 1300 to MS, 1k games 3 months later, and 800 games another 3 months later. MS was now at 1100 during peak and NPL at 800. With the introduction of lobby bans, we of course now had, what you described above. Former players of NPL now playing in MS could no longer play CS in NPL, unfortunately we couldn't find a technical solution for this, thus the decision, that "Roll the Dice", or "Sheep VS Wolf" or "Jurrasic Park" should be played in CS lobby from now. We removed the ratings for those maps and asked the CS lead to add rated ladders for those maps. At the same time we added the a new ladder called "CS Beginners Random" with a special Beginners map pools, where people could play (and learn) random CS Blood maps, which was very popular in CS too. Again we had the same problem, that tons of CS players were coming over to NPL with the same problems, we already believed to have solved in the past. Instead of automatic bans, we decided to issue bans manually on CS players for extreme cases only, e. g. PT, harassing players for being "noobs" and other violations according to our Bans & Rating policies. For us, NPL was a place to learn RM. New players in NPL however didn't like the random ladder, and CBA Hero TTM has become the only map, that was being played by people who don't care about TTM or unrated match making (including a couple of CS players). After almost 2 years and no games played for more than 6 months on the CS Beginners Random ladder, we completely removed the CS ladders from NPL and RM-Beginners was the only active ladder in NPL. All ladder / lobby bans related to CS players were lifted at that time. And we also did what we have been asked by the acting CS Lead at that time, to send all CS players from NPL to CS, so the CS community won't split. Ironically NPL was so attractive for most CS players, that they started learning RM in NPL and most of them are now playing in MS today or are still players of the NPL. The problem isn't, that most CS players are playing CS in NPL, at least not anymore since we unrated the CS maps there. I hope I was able to answer all your questions.
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 [LyF]JimmY


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 16 September 2014
Posts:1312
Posted 13 September 2017 - 3:21 pm
+chris@voobly wrote:
Total games played + finished per month.


We removed rated CS match making in NPL for CBA (in 2013 or 2014, I don't remember) when (1) more and more CS players from the CS lobby started playing CBA / CBA Hero in NPL and (2) our complaints kept increasing every week (similar to CS, with dozens of CBA matches to be reset). We also had to ban lots of CS players at that time, as they were either noob bashing on the CS ladder or behaving like children and harassing people for "being noobs" or "feeding" or "lagging". After CBA was finally unrated in NPL, most of the CS players returned to CS; some of them however have stayed in NPL and even though they didn't like TTM, they started playing CBA Hero TTM with the new players in NPL, CBA completely died though, while CBA Hero was the only CS map at that time. Before 2014 when CBA was still rated, we had 60% CBA and 40% RM in NPL, after 2014 when it was finally unrated 20% CS and 80% RM. This was also the time where Gallas was promoting his CS maps, new maps like "Roll the Dice" or "Sheep VS Wolf" or even maps like Jurrasic Park have become popular and CBA Hero has become even less popular. This is where the problems on RM side have started, after more than 2 years, most of the banned RM-Beginners players who didn't want to play in MS but also have been unable to evade the ladder bans, were doing the following: they were hosting on the RM-Beginners ladder and once their room was full, they quickly switched to the Inter Ladder and launched. Most of our new players of course didn't notice that, the result was noob bashing to a new level and tons of complaints. We then removed the Inter Ladder in NPL and added it to MS, which didn't solve the problem. The trick was the same, but instead of the Inter Ladder, the CS Ladder was used and some players even had the awesome idea, to play maps like Arabia or BF on the CS ladder - including those, who loved to add unfair advantages using the scenario editor and playing custom RM maps. We then updated our client to assure, that only authorized maps would rate in NPL, but also did not solve our problem. After more than 6 months and hundreds of complaints later (2015 now), more than half of the total RM games played in NPL were unrated, and again people kept switching the ladder settings from RM-Beginner to Unrated before they launched - and now we had another problem. RM population in NPL was above 1300 during peak hours, and all 300 game rooms were taken, while the MS lobby had only 700 players. Now we had two communities complaining, players of MS, because there we no games and new players of NPL, because the noob bashing problem has become bigger and bigger, as the ladder bans didn't work due to people playing unrated. Lobby bans were finally introduced, everyone who was banned from the RM-Beginners ladder, also was forced to play in the MS lobby. While the numbers in NPL dropped to 1000 players, MS and NPL finally became even again during peak hours, both at 1000 players. Those banned from NPL were now complaining, that they were too few, to find other players with the same skill levels and that they are tired losing every single game against 16xx and 17xx players. We started updating our client again and 3 months later, we finally had automatic lobby and ladder bans, and an automatic detection of known violations was introduced. We no longer needed staff taking care of this (late 2015, early 2016). After some tweaks we noticed, that our ladder / lobby restrictions have finally become effective and we started transferring more and more players to MS to finally solve the problem, that people could not find other players with the same skill level. We even added the RM-Beginners ladder to MS; so no one would show up as a player with zéro games. We first catched up those playing for years on Voobly, with 16xx and 17xx rating on the old RM ladders (2009 - 2012). Then we catched up those with multiple 13xx accounts in NPL and last but not least, those who even were resigning games, they have won, to keep their rating in NPL low, which has become an automatic detection later. The problem on RM side was finally fixed in NPL, and we even added an IPL lobby with the same protection level for those, who didn't want to play in MS, the numbers in IPL kept dropping though, from > 100 during peak to ~20 today. We kept tweaking our algorithm and started sending players with more than 2k games and a rating above 1300 to MS, 1k games 3 months later, and 800 games another 3 months later. MS was now at 1100 during peak and NPL at 800. With the introduction of lobby bans, we of course now had, what you described above. Former players of NPL now playing in MS could no longer play CS in NPL, unfortunately we couldn't find a technical solution for this, thus the decision, that "Roll the Dice", or "Sheep VS Wolf" or "Jurrasic Park" should be played in CS lobby from now. We removed the ratings for those maps and asked the CS lead to add rated ladders for those maps. At the same time we added the a new ladder called "CS Beginners Random" with a special Beginners map pools, where people could play (and learn) random CS Blood maps, which was very popular in CS too. Again we had the same problem, that tons of CS players were coming over to NPL with the same problems, we already believed to have solved in the past. Instead of automatic bans, we decided to issue bans manually on CS players for extreme cases only, e. g. PT, harassing players for being "noobs" and other violations according to our Bans & Rating policies. For us, NPL was a place to learn RM. New players in NPL however didn't like the random ladder, and CBA Hero TTM has become the only map, that was being played by people who don't care about TTM or unrated match making (including a couple of CS players). After almost 2 years and no games played for more than 6 months on the CS Beginners Random ladder, we completely removed the CS ladders from NPL and RM-Beginners was the only active ladder in NPL. All ladder / lobby bans related to CS players were lifted at that time. And we also did what we have been asked by the acting CS Lead at that time, to send all CS players from NPL to CS, so the CS community won't split. Ironically NPL was so attractive for most CS players, that they started learning RM in NPL and most of them are now playing in MS today or are still players of the NPL. The problem isn't, that most CS players are playing CS in NPL, at least not anymore since we unrated the CS maps there. I hope I was able to answer all your questions.

That's some nice paragraphs bro
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 _THEM0Nk_


Group: Gold Membership
Join Date: 26 February 2008
Posts:72
Posted 13 September 2017 - 8:50 pm
Insert *Mic Drop* Gif!
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 [dv8]NXTLVL


Group: Silver Membership
Join Date: 21 August 2012
Posts:1121
Edited 13 September 2017 - 9:48 pm by [dv8]NXTLVL
+chris@voobly wrote:
Total games played + finished per month.
Does voobly even keep track of unrated matches? Im still doubting that 95 percentage, kinda seems made up.

For the remaining part I would have appreciated some paragraphs like Jimmy already said. It was a pain to read through that block of text not to mention that most of it describes just the history of the NPL rather than replying to my post.

I will just reply to some parts of it since most of it seems quite irrelevant:
+chris@voobly wrote:
RM population in NPL was above 1300 during peak hours, and all 300 game rooms were taken, while the MS lobby had only 700 players. Now we had two communities complaining, players of MS, because there we no games and new players of NPL, because the noob bashing problem has become bigger and bigger
Why did voobly had to make another lobby anyway? From what Ive read in your post it didnt solve anything at all until the point of the quote which is 2-3 years (still have to read the rest) but instead only increased the problems.

Like I previously stated, splitting up communities is a step in the wrong direction. Evidence is you saying that even RM players were complaining about less games because many simply moved to NPL. (As a side note: MS players complaining because there are "only" 700 players is amusing from the point of view of a CSer) We are facing the same problem in CS. After so many players moved to NPL, CS is kinda deserted. I know declining player numbers in such an old game is just natural but it really screwed CS over. Now we are at a point where its hard to even get a full 17++ room for CBA. And yes, even before the ladder reset. To me and some others thats just frustrating having to play with or against bad players.

As for the noob bashing problem - it will always be there as long as you have ratings. The majority of the players play for points and noob bashing is an easy way to get a high rating (which those people usually dont deserve). Im not saying to remove ratings because like I said those points are the only motivation for many, so if you remove them a lot of players will stop playing. But noob bashing will always be there whether you have one lobby or ten lobbies. There is nothing you can do about it, people will always find a way to do it.
+chris@voobly wrote:
While the numbers in NPL dropped to 1000 players, MS and NPL finally became even again during peak hours, both at 1000 players. [...] MS was now at 1100 during peak and NPL at 800.
All you did was shifting players around. Why cant they all play in one lobby? I mean you even added the RM-Beginners ladder to MS already so what do you need NPL still for? Delete NPL and IPL and you have the players who play custom scenarios in NPL all move to CS and the players who play random maps and death match in NPL move to MS. Whether they play on the RM-Beginners ladder in NPL or MS doesnt make a difference, does it?

As a result you dont have people complaining about not enough games. Well, you probably still do but its not the NPLs fault anymore. And RM players who are banned in NPL because their skill doesnt belong there can also enjoy some CS maps that are currently played in NPL most of the time.

I just dont see a reason why you need that extra lobby. Its only causing more problems than it solves and new players can also learn the maps in the competitive lobbies. It worked well for over 10 years, so why change it? With the time you (voobly staff) save not having to worry about NPL you can do other good things for voobly or even use that time for your private life.
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 +chris@voobly


Group: Server Administrator
Join Date: 3 October 2007
Posts:6741
Edited 13 September 2017 - 11:01 pm by +chris@voobly
Apologies for the long and hard to read post above, I wrote it in the train this morning. lol

What I wrote above was a rewind of the last 5 years. Please understand, that there was basically a time before Taff, when other Voobly admins in charge made decisions what is being done in NPL, there was a time when Taff decided, what is being done in NPL who basically introduced ladder bans (2013 - 2016) and I took over from Taff in May 2016 when Taff decided to resign from his position.

The question is, do you really want to close / delete a lobby, that has exist for more than 5 years and basically brought many, really many players to Voobly. After all the years since Zone closed, most new players are confused when they join Voobly for the first time, as most of them don't remember Zone. They don't understand how to join or host games, they didn't understand how Voobly and the ELO system works and most of them were even new to a game, that is now 18 years old.

NPL was originally designed to become a gated community and for us it was a positive experience having that lobby, as the numbers of players literally exploded over the years. Looking at it today, you are completely right. We have split the community at some point, but we have also helped this community to grow its player base and you probably also agree with me if I say, that you do not simply shut down something, that has exist for such a long time and basically helped the community to survive. Looking at the statistics, we have more players using a Steam installation, than players with an actual classic installation of AOK and AOC.

Also don't forget, that those players in NPL are part of the community as well. Imagine, what you'd say, if players of MS (RM and DM players) would suddenly decide, that CS lobby must be closed and that you could play in their lobby from now (not that they really want to see this happen, it's just an hypothetical scenario). Ask yourself how you'd feel and whether you wouldn't ask those people, who gives them the right, to make such decisions, even though they are not even part of the CS community within the AOC community as a whole . It's the same for players of NPL.

The bottom line is, all those players telling us to shut down the NPL already, do this because of their own interests. You even wrote this yourself, so it's not even an assumption, people want to have easy and fast games, it's the only thing they care about and they don't care about the rest of the community. But it's Voobly's job to make sure, that everyone within the community has a voice, including those we blame for splitting the community, but bring new players to the community at the same time. It's a love-hate relationship, you need each other, but don't realize, that the AOC community wouldn't have survived without them (at least on Voobly).

I also don't understand why you take this personal, that's at least that's the impression I have, after reading all those attacks and harassments of the past two years you were throwing at me. Yes, I may not play this game anymore and I certainly didn't play much since classic Zone was retired in 2007, but at the same time, people like myself help keeping this place alive. I'm also not a gamer, I'm a techie, someone who could explain to you which one's and zero's let you have a great game and how Voobly really works, because I was part of the DEV team when the majority of code was written. I rely on people who know the community, who know the game and who work with me and I make decisions based on information that is provided by both, staff and players.

You can ask anyone on Voobly, I never was the guy who suddenly decides something out of the blue. Voobly is a community project and if you want to change things, you must become part of the project as a whole. Also don't get mad if things don't go as you expect them to go, we are sometimes waiting months, sometimes even years to get features implemented and working, we need yet and now, that even happens to me. As well as Elusive, I do this in my free time and we do this for more than 10 years already and no one of us expected, that this project would survive ten years.
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 [dv8]NXTLVL


Group: Silver Membership
Join Date: 21 August 2012
Posts:1121
Posted 14 September 2017 - 6:27 pm
+chris@voobly wrote:
The question is, do you really want to close / delete a lobby, that has exist for more than 5 years and basically brought many, really many players to Voobly. After all the years since Zone closed, most new players are confused when they join Voobly for the first time, as most of them don't remember Zone. They don't understand how to join or host games, they didn't understand how Voobly and the ELO system works and most of them were even new to a game, that is now 18 years old.
Yes, why not? If its causing more trouble than solving problems then I would not hesitate to change the system. Just because something exists for a relatively long time doesnt mean its a good thing and should stay (Beispiel: GEZ, auch wenns nichts mit gaming zutun hat). I know voobly stuff is scared - or lets rather say careful - with drastic changes thats why it took 3-4 years to reset the CBA ladders. Instead you tried other things first, like the decay system or the elo change which in my opinion rather upset people than make them happy. Sure it has its pros but from my point of view it was just an attempt at avoiding a ladder reset instead of improving the overall system.
+chris@voobly wrote:
NPL was originally designed to become a gated community and for us it was a positive experience having that lobby, as the numbers of players literally exploded over the years. Looking at it today, you are completely right. We have split the community at some point, but we have also helped this community to grow its player base and you probably also agree with me if I say, that you do not simply shut down something, that has exist for such a long time and basically helped the community to survive. Looking at the statistics, we have more players using a Steam installation, than players with an actual classic installation of AOK and AOC.
But the player numbers did not increase because you had NPL. Youre even stating yourself that most players use a steam installation, ergo many players joined voobly after they bought AoC HD, AoFE, African Kingdoms or the latest expansion which are only available on steam now.
+chris@voobly wrote:
Also don't forget, that those players in NPL are part of the community as well. Imagine, what you'd say, if players of MS (RM and DM players) would suddenly decide, that CS lobby must be closed and that you could play in their lobby from now (not that they really want to see this happen, it's just an hypothetical scenario). Ask yourself how you'd feel and whether you wouldn't ask those people, who gives them the right, to make such decisions, even though they are not even part of the CS community within the AOC community as a whole . It's the same for players of NPL.
Actually, I would be all in favor for having just one big lobby. As long as I can still play CBA or other custom scenarios in that lobby Im all for it. Because thats the whole point. If the NPL players have to move, they can still play the maps they used to play in NPL, just somewhere else.

You can sort the game rooms by ladders so the mass of rooms shouldnt prevent players from finding games. It would encourage players like me to try more RM as well as some RMers try some CS maps.
+chris@voobly wrote:
I also don't understand why you take this personal, that's at least that's the impression I have, after reading all those attacks and harassments of the past two years you were throwing at me.
Im not taking anything personal, I simply say what I think. Im not a fan of social politeness in conversations if it means to bend your words so that you dont upset anyone but also expessing your opinion at the same time because often it just results in some bull**** where nobody knows what you actually wanted to say. I know being direct can upset people or at least make it sound like Im unpolite but my friends in my private life say my directness is a thing they like about me because I get straight to the point.

As for the last part, many many players would appreciate the CS-Clans ladder (or even RM-Clans ladder if something like that exists) coming back. I know matches cant be reset but Im sure it cant be too hard to fix a minor problem like that. I know youre a techie but I dont know if that means that youre also a programmer but if you are then Im sure you couldve fixed the Clans ladder issue by now if you didnt have to worry about NPL for the past few years.
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 ['RB']nhoobish


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Join Date: 8 August 2010
Posts:2781
Posted 14 September 2017 - 9:31 pm
As for the last part, many many players would appreciate the CS-Clans ladder

This was added to the super secret CS improval developer list again. Hopefully we will get to see it one day and working as intended.
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 [_Mx]eL_Apoca_


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 17 March 2012
Posts:7
Posted 16 September 2017 - 4:11 am
I am into a large group of facebook where one streamer guy has more viewers and followers than the same viper, his viewers and like 98% of that community is full of newbies that think that the place for playing aoc is NPL, they feel like it is a punishment to get into MS, i have to be honest they are tons of players that i want to crush and took their beloved puntos, if we were all together in on single lobby i would get a game after game, but well NPL community is a new aoc community they have their aoc levels, their own noobs and pro players it is a totally separated community, having 900+players in a lobby that is supposed for -New players- makes no sense, they are just cheating the system to stay there and they are not looking for the transition to MS, the main goal of NPL has failed.

As for the guy complaining about CBA, well i have played there when it was active and...LAG, LAG then massive lag is all you find in any kind of CBA games, my friends told me to get use to atleast 5-6 secs of delay, i know most custom players don't care about skills but man come on there is not even quality playing under that circumstances, you better find other game or learn to play normal aoc, iam telling you this as a former jurassic player.
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 I_Am_Hunter


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Join Date: 7 August 2017
Posts:5
Posted 16 September 2017 - 9:44 am
They are Afraid Of MS and they should be .. the level of skill simply does not match and they lose many many games ... which makes them find a way to go back to npl or leave the game altogether ....
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 ['RB']nhoobish


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 8 August 2010
Posts:2781
Posted 16 September 2017 - 9:45 am
Massive lag and quality go together, if you are playing a scenario that has more than 10k units.
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 [dv8]NXTLVL


Group: Silver Membership
Join Date: 21 August 2012
Posts:1121
Posted 16 September 2017 - 11:08 pm
lotr is not quality ;sneaky


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